Clowns & Jokers

Stuck in the middle.... Left, right, centre. It's a mess out there.

Tuesday, April 25, 2006

Slowly but surely its wake up time

I should update on the Free Expression meeting on Saturday. Gathered in a room, an old library in fact, under the watchful gaze of Voltaire no less..central London. Hatched a sort of plan about taking the free speech issues from the rally a month ago to 'the next level'. It seems like a very serious group, a very mixed group aswell. Its not often i find myself surrounded by socialists with the odd right winger. But lets face it the left are the agitators, the real do-ers.

Diverse mix of very useful skills for the cause with some excellent big ideas to take us forward.

We discussed what we view as our notion of free speech - are there any boundaries? Only incitement to violence imho. What our possible next steps would be. Very exciting i think.

And then i signed up to what sounds like a lot of hard work with the potential to really drive the message home. I even kind of, sort of, understood Peters position on the cartoons at the rally. (Im still glad people turned up with the cartoons though). He can see how wily the 'opposition' are, watching our every move. Its going to take some very smart strategy and posturing and he wanted this to get off the ground. Well it has.

More to follow on this as and when it develops.


I also enjoyed reading the Euston Manifesto over at Harrys Blog. Been circulating for a while now. Again the left are seeking action, doing something positive - and moving away from the poisonous elements in their ranks. This manifesto structured in Euston (North London) is a left wing charter aimed at fighting off anti americanism, seeing itself as pro interventionism with the aim of freedom for people where they are oppressed and the right to the values we all hold dear, they are pro the Iraq war (and have encountered fierce criticism as a result). I dont agree with all of it but id be much more inclined to listen to them than others on the left. I felt the same way about the meeting Saturday.

All together this all feels positive and encouraging. Moving in the right direction, pushed by a number of elements, including the blogosphere ;)

When will the Tories start to wake up. Chasing huskies and the green vote is either really really subtle and strategic or daft. Telling people, as Cameron has, to vote for any party but the BNP is plain ignorant and out of touch. No mention of 'Respect' when he was talking about parties you shouldnt vote for. Fascists are fascists Dave. And to totally misunderstand why people are moving in this extreme direction is baffling.

Multi culturalism, truly one of the biggest social policy failures ever.

Interesting times ahead.



20 Comments:

At Wednesday, 26 April, 2006, Blogger Wolfie said...

I've been looking at the Euston manifesto myself, it has many fine points but where it falls down for me is it doesn't seem very practical to me in some places. I won't go into it as I'll be rambling for hours but idealistic, simplistic ideals are all well and good but like many good intentions they pave the way to hell. Being an economist myself I think their social/financial proposals are economically naive and frankly their support for the Iraq war demonstrates poor political/military strategic understanding, as we will be learning over the next few months as Iran [inevitably] flexes its muscles. Still I'm glad to see someone making a stand on what they believe in this substance-less political era.

 
At Wednesday, 26 April, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

I agree with you on their socio economic proposals. What they seem to be trying to do is break away from the poisonous left who have had way too much influence. So even though it is only a set of ideals its an excellent move. I dont think it was poor understanding on Iraq necessarily - i think they are saying that 'whatever' re the complex causes of intervention a people still need delivering from the hands of murderous dictators in favour of democracy so they support the action.

 
At Wednesday, 26 April, 2006, Blogger Jacqui said...

What are the main elements of the multi-culturalism policy that you object to, Alison, please?

 
At Wednesday, 26 April, 2006, Blogger Alison said...

Multi-culturalism allows people of different faiths and cultures to settle without integrating at all.

People pour into ghettos and through lazy policies are allowed to live exclusively from society to such a degree they view others as outsiders (in some cases 'filth' and 'decadent') and see their religion as above the Rule of Law.

It also takes as its supreme PC motto that all cultures are equal. They arent at all and to think so is so utterly naive its laughable. I dont view myself as equal to a culture that believes in stoning women for adultery, forced marriages & hanging gays.

For example that young women are happily adopting a way of life that subjugates them and restricts their freedoms shows that they have no understanding or respect for the society into which they were born where women are equal to men. That we permit women to go backwards so easily and readily is an inditement of those same policies. Did we not just leave that party?

The powers that be are given to encouraging distinctive identities rather than promoting Britishness. They arent interested in promoting a set of shared common values which incorporate equality, the Rule of Law, a shared vision of how we as a society progress and how we contribute to it.

In its relation to free speech - we are slowly allowing the erosion of a fundamental value - to protect the sensibilities of a religion. Having spent the best part of a few centuries unshackling ourselves from this. If we have no basis on which to challenge that religion through free speech then we cannot hope to ever pursuade women who accept the veil of the nonsense of what they are doing. If i were to do so I would be racist. Its all wrapped up in the same poisonous policy of multi culturalism. An outdated lazy policy (designed for vote chasing) that has failed us all very badly.

 
At Thursday, 27 April, 2006, Blogger Mike's America said...

Multiculturalism is the stupidest idea EVER!

Instead of creating an atmosphere of tolerance and understanding, it breeds division instead.

And people are going to DIE because of it.

What's sad is that government educators in the US have embraced it with a passion.

And our schools no longer act as the acculturating agents for the waves of immigration we are currently experiencing.

One study showed that young Mexican immigrants were LESS likely to identify themselves with their new country the longer they were in school.

Doesn't that sound like a problem for our future?

 
At Friday, 28 April, 2006, Blogger Jacqui said...

Alison

Thank you.

You spell out some extreme things about other cultures. There are also many many positive aspects to other cultures and many negative aspects to UK and American culture.

A poor example from each of the latter culture, to an outsider, would be the excessive heavy drinking of younger people, particularly men, in the UK.

An example drawn from US culture is the prevalence of rape in the USA.

Casual and early-age sex is very common in the West generally and it is not surprising that many and not just Muslims see this as evidence of decadence.

There are religions in the US which disrupt the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq because they believe the US supports gay rights and therefore the US to them is evil.

Are you not selecting bad things about other cultures as a reason to condemn them when there are many bad aspects of UK and US culture which I or someone else could pick to condemn them too?

Different cultures and people living together only breeds division when one group of people dont like the other group of people.

 
At Saturday, 29 April, 2006, Blogger MonicaR said...

One does not have to 'like' another but one MUST follow a set of rules as far as what acceptable behavior is. Rape is unacceptable and is prosecuted. Abuse of women is unacceptable and is prosecuted. Attempting to murder another is prosecuted. In all instances in the US one's right to defend oneself is recognized.

I'm curious to know if Jacqi believes that if we all just 'like' one another enough all the bad things will stop happening?

 
At Saturday, 29 April, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

But those bad things in our culture we challenge Jacqui.

Dont you think those bad things ive selected are acutely worrying?

Also regards your example, such failures of our own cultures are constantly challenged as they already concern us.

To challenge the issues i have highlighted is deemed racism.

The key point i was making is that some immigrant groups freely take advantage of the prosperity and technology of globalised economies and liberal democracies and then utterly reject the cultures that embody these. Its not simply a case that they find aspects of our society to their distaste. People are moving into self segregating ‘communities’(ghettos) with people like themselves and building visible barriers to keep 'strangers' (anyone else) and surroundings out by choice.

Certain cultures are taking advantage of modernity, affluence and ‘freedoms’ to PRACTISE do it yourself tribalism. A sort of mini world within a world ~ with all its factuous elements, deep rooted racism, brutal chauvinism and all the things we need to move away from please. This in itself has an adverse affect on the indigenous population.

Re your last sentence I feel multi culturalism has a lot to answer for in that respect.

You'll never manage to simply make complex human problems away. You need to diminish fear and mistrust in humans to lessen the divide not increase them. Its a huge complex task and its being poorly managed by this failed ghetto policy. It has clearly and demonstrably made problems much more acute.

 
At Saturday, 29 April, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

repetitious at the top but blogger comments are all over the place today: that should read with the question first.

 
At Saturday, 29 April, 2006, Blogger Jacqui said...

Alison

I am sorry, I had a longer post addressing some of your issues but maybe it has gone.

Briefly:

I do not think that anyone has a right to criticise you or I condemning the likes of female circumcision. You are not a racist for mentioning this and neither am I.

Ghettoisation is the result of push (rejection) as well as pull factors, eg the Irish communities in the United States and in north London. English people rejected those Irish people and foerced them ("No Irish")into communities, little mini worlds.

Why would it not be the same now when the new arrivals are unlike the Irish of the last century black and brown skinned?

I think you have to accept that prejudice has an impact on people wanting to remain separate.

 
At Sunday, 30 April, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

Hi

Bloggers all screwed today i think. I lost my original comment.

The multi culti policies nurture the ghettos. And in turn nurture the prejudice. The policies dont even attempt to integrate people or break down prejudices. They go to great lengths to KEEP the ghetto mentality and say well its okay, you live how you want and we'll live how we want and we can be totally seperate. Those communities then take advantage and cut themselves off completely. The mistrust then grows.

And the issue is that we are criticized/censored for speaking out. I find it amazing that a group like the Muslim Action Committee can move to shut down free speech for example.

 
At Monday, 01 May, 2006, Blogger the adventuress said...

Multiculturalism is simply another world for tribalism. And tribalism leads invariably to ethnic bloodshed, every single time.

In the US historically the ethnic "ghettoes" disappeared within the third generation of immigration. There are no "Irish ghettoes" currently in existence today.

Multiculturalism is currently destroying one of US culture's historic strengths -- our melting pot, which puts our American identity ahead of all others. We will have hell to pay for this as the US balkanizes and ethnic tensions between all our different groups increase. If we had held steadfastly to our melting pot culture none of this would have happened.

jacqui, the US rape rate is "high" because women feel empowered to report it by our culture and system of laws. In many Muslim countries, the rape victim is legally prosected, not the rapist, and/or the rape victim is killed by her family for the sake of "honor." That's a huge incentive to keep quiet about the crime.

In many Latin American countries a similar ethos prevails, where the victim is ostracized rather than the victimizer (but at least they don't kill the rape victims.)

Multiculturalism was deliberately induced into the West to destroy it, by the political sore losers who saw their dreams disappear when the Berlin Wall went down. They couldn't destroy us economically so now they are trying to destroy us culturally.

 
At Monday, 01 May, 2006, Blogger the adventuress said...

I forgot to add, that multiculturalism doesn't even live up to its premise that "all cultures are equal of respect." Under multiculturalism there is, of course, ONE particular culture that is not considered worthy of any respect at all. Guess which one?

Regards, IA

 
At Monday, 01 May, 2006, Blogger the adventuress said...

Different cultures and people living together only breeds division when one group of people dont like the other group of people.

I am sorry, but shis is Kumbaya-singing, mushy-headed Hallmark-card-poetry-writing nonsense of the worst, most maudlin, most air-headed kind. What if the "different groups" of people have a perfectly valid reason for disliking each other? (i.e. one group thinks the other group is inferior to them by their culture and treats the other group like shit, etc., one group throws garbage on women who don't wear burqas, etc., one group thinks it's entitled to live on welfare for the rest of their lives and the other group doesn't want to pay the taxes to support them -- all of which we know is happening in our multicultural paradises all the time.)

The fact is that realtive monocultures are the most successful cultures in the world. Less crime, less poverty, less political violence and unrest. What Scandinavia and England used to be, what the US used to be when we had the melting pot, and what Japan still is.

Culture matters -- it matters a lot. Fools like to pretend that cultures do not have anything to do with the success of a society or nation; but then they also like to pretend that hard work and education and playing by the rules have nothing to do with individual peoples' success too.

 
At Monday, 01 May, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

"What if the "different groups" of people have a perfectly valid reason for disliking each other? (i.e. one group thinks the other group is inferior to them by their culture and treats the other group like shit, etc., one group throws garbage on women who don't wear burqas, etc., one group thinks it's entitled to live on welfare for the rest of their lives and the other group doesn't want to pay the taxes to support them -- all of which we know is happening in our multicultural paradises all the time.)"

So true. There is no equality and that has created ALL the anger. Plus weve spent the best part of a long time doing down our own culture. Of course if we voice any concerns we are shouted down as racists. Absurd.

I also agree with you about monocultures. Eek! May i be outcast, drowned and then hung!!

 
At Tuesday, 02 May, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

One final point. These are not deprived people. Growing up in Britain they are enormously wealthy by the standards of their grandparents, privileged with the values of this GREAT civilisation. They have been cosseted by a thumb twiddling leftist society afraid to criticise their attitudes and behaviour, even their most reactionary, BARBARIC views on women. Yet despite all this pandering, they attack the very country they are so lucky to live in. Im fed up with it. Its a fiasco by realist standards and im a realist. Its probably TOO LATE for us to repair the damage. I get a slightly sick feeling thinking how many people died in WW2 for such values so a bunch of air headed bitter lefties could so quickly chuck it down the toilet.

 
At Tuesday, 02 May, 2006, Blogger Jacqui said...

I simply made the point that multi-culturalism did not exist at a time when immigrant groups formed into ghettoes and determined to separate from society which rejected them. It is absurd to blame on that policy, a phenomenon which has been around for many decades.

I make the point again that the antipathy directed towards immigrants is a major factor in pushing them to exclude from the society.

It is an antipathy and hostility based on some aspects of the immigrant culture and results in a hostility to the whole group - which has as much foundation as calling anyone with an Irish accent "a terrorist" or indeed, anyone who expresses views such as mine "an airhead" even if I am blonde!

 
At Tuesday, 02 May, 2006, Blogger Alison said...

Ill reply to you later on tonight Jacqui unless anyone else would like to of course! Im off for a curry :) and then on to see Mission Impossible III multi media

You and Jo seem to have quite a different take on politics btw. Would i be correct in saying you are slightly more to the right?!

 
At Tuesday, 02 May, 2006, Blogger Jacqui said...

Hi, hey that movie sounds great.
I am jealous!

We are different, she and I. She is not as mad as you might think but she has a fierce passion and I love it. I am not sure she would disagree with much I have said. I am sure she will say! :)

 
At Wednesday, 03 May, 2006, Blogger Jo said...

Sure, I am a shy retiring kinda gurl!

Alison

I am gonna suggest something here. I think you have had contact too often with a particular type of wishy washy "ultra" "London Lib" person who is afraid of their own arse if they caught sight of it in a mirror and has sickened you with their "you cant you cant" attitude -the sort of pathetic little ineffectual toerag who does no cause or set of beliefs any ceed whatsoever...Asyou tend to see anyone who shares that persons liberal values as being one with them. In fact my roots my individuality and my iconoclastic termperament mean that you I and Jacqui would be all equally like to get utterly pissed off with them given fifteen minutes in the one room!

 

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