Clowns & Jokers

Stuck in the middle.... Left, right, centre. It's a mess out there.

Monday, August 07, 2006

"More than 900 Lebanese, most of them civilians, have been killed in the conflict, the Lebanese government says. More than 90 Israelis, most of them soldiers, have also been killed" the BBC

So...according to the BBC and the Lebanese government no Hitzballah soldiers have been killed? Israel have missed every single Hitz guerilla out there but Hitzballah have been reasonably successful??

Perhaps more accurately:

"Israel's attacks on Lebanon have killed at least 617 people, including 524 civilians, 29 Lebanese soldiers and at least 53 Hezbollah guerrillas" the Washington Times

And thats still probably very conservative since we already know that Hiztballah blend into the background and don't wear uniforms:-.



source ~ photos that damn Hitzbollah



We know they have uniforms though. When they parade around like Nazis and the world gazes on absent mindedly.

The BBC and msm in presenting these figures give a terror organisation that openly calls for Israels destruction the moral high ground. The figures are presented to skew the bias and present Hitzbollah as a morally superior organisation.

Israel should work harder to present the facts. It is losing the propaganda war. The same absent minded populations with nothing to say on Holocaust denial - reach out for their papers and buy into all the fiction.



Israel needs our support.

Sky have a
decent pictorial mini history of Hitzballah to remind us (if required) that Israels previous attempts at capitulating to Hitzballah have only led us to the present day conflict. They are now justifiably fully engaging these terrorists who have been
cossetted by the Lebanese government.

"In 2005, Lebanon's prime minister-designate Najib Miqati rejected international demands for the disarming of the Hizbollah militia.The group remains the most powerful military force in the country"

43 Comments:

At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Blogger Mike's America said...

Notice how the BBC quote makes the moral comparison between Israel killing Lebanese civilians and downplays the Israeli civilian deaths?

We're supposed to forget that the Hezboos would kill every single Jew in Israel if given the chance (and yes, they DO mean it) and that they deliberately target civilians.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous Maggie said...

Yes totally agree Mike, have listened to all reports. Biased isn't in it!
Now here's a thing...the Lebanese government now wants, as part of the UN deal, all Isreali soldiers to pull out of Southern Lebanon (all the areas they have made somewhat safer) and put in 15,000 Lebanese soldiers to police the area! Duh Well of course the Isrealis should agree to this, as the Lebanese track record is so good.
Sorry to keep banging on about Anna Botting, but I would like a Kartusha rocket to fall right next to her...I will then fly out to say oh dear sorry Anna they missed. I will never forget that stupid woman talking to a soldier who could be dead within a few hours of leaving her interview.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

Maggie - what did she say to the soldier i missed that?

Absolutely Mike. A whole section of my post appears to be missing - thanks blogger! But yes that was generally my point. Alongside the fact that Hiztbollah have very nice nazi uniforms which if they werent playing such a clever tactical and propaganda war would make it easier for journos to work out whose getting killed out there.

Ill stick that bit back in shortly if blogger works!

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Blogger Wolfie said...

Mind you, and I'm just musing in a devil's advocate sort of way now, could things have been different if other strategies had been employed.

Israel has been at war with Egypt in the past and peace was bought by returning all prisoners and returning all captured territory. Egypt is no "democracy" and is well armed but this strategy bought peace.

In dealing with the IRA the Irish government handed over some political power to Sinn Fein and the British government released all prisoners. The IRA has still not completely disarmed but it has bought peace.

I think you can see where I'm going with this reasoning.

I don't like appeasement either but when faced with a never-ending cycle of hatred it sometimes seems prudent to try another strategy. Israel used force before in Lebanon and it didn't achieve anything then and I suspect just doing it all again (just harder) isn't now.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Blogger Jo said...

The death toll in Lebanon is now 1000, the death toll in israel is - 92.

3000 rockets killed 92 people.

In response, 1000 are dead, by any reasonable standard, a disproportionate death toll and despite cycnicism, no one seriously doubts that almost all of these are innocent civilians.

Had for example, a sizeable no of Hezbullah actually been killed, then the increased ferocity of attack on Israel appears somewhat inexplicable. Indeed, the increased level of attack on Israel shows how ineffective as well as how disproportionate the Israeli action is.

The world is disgusted at Israel which has acted in its own long term worst interests by elevating Hezbullah in the Arab world and uniting opposition to Israel. What they are doing simply isnt worth it.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Blogger Dangerouslysubversivedad said...

Jo,

When a country (and Hezbollah is a part of the Lebanese government)launches rocket atacks into civilian areas of their neighbours, that neighbour is entitled to defend itself. Period. This isnt some kind of 'one for one' game whereby its OK to target civilians as long as you dont kill any more of theirs than they kill of yours.

The thing is, the Shiite Muslims of Lebanon would like every Jew in Israel to be exterminated. What's a 'proportionate' response to the knowledge that your neighbours want every single one of your people dead?

You're right about one thing though. Olmert's decision to respond to Hezbollah with air power rather than ground attack was beyond stupid. The only way for Israel to remove the threat to their people is to clear Hezbollah from Southern Lebanon and reoccupy it as they did before.

Whic brings us to Wolfie. Mate, read your history about Israel and Lebanon. When Israel occupied southern Lebanon, Israel's civilians were safe from any attack from there. Israel left lebanon - and the attacks started again, Hezbollah had time and leisure to establish ammo dumps, weapons caches and launching platforms there and now we see the end result. You can't 'appease' the likes of Hezbollah like Britain did the IRA. The correct analogy isnt the 1990's, its 1938.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

Jo

Iran is endlessly supplying them with the katushas Jo. Hitzbollah even before the war, had a large large nos of civi supporters able to use them. Hitzbo flags flew from lampposts in the civilian areas currently being bombed. HItzbollah stashed their weaponary up in these areas in clear violation of all international laws, fully supported by the majority population and more importantly the Lebanese government - whilst they bombarded Israeli civilians in northern Israel for years. Where was the moral indignation at the failures here?
Hitzbollah have declared from day one that they wish to see Israels complete destruction. Is that what Stoppers mean by negotiating/appeasing? Israel negotiated with Hitzbollah previously - it released prisoners
in an exchange which benefited Hitzbo, they withdrew from south
Lebanon - in appeasing Hitzbollah they made them stronger. The payback was with random katushas. Hitzbo 'negotiations' involve firing katushas to secure 28km of farmlands? Or rather to prolong the Israel hate.
The Lebanese government endorsed Hitzbollah as recently as last year and totally renaged on its own duties within the UN resolutions to subdue them. Lebanon has a duty of care and is responsible for its own
people and in not undertaking any moves towards undoing this organization or subduing it is *responsible*.
The reason Israel are attacking now is because *Lebanon* didnt subdue them by negotiation and Israel no longer wish to appease and see an emboldened Hitzbollah bent on Israels destruction acting at the hands of Iran and receiving more funding. Whilst Iran goes nuclear.
Israel have succeeded in exposing Hitzbo and Iran as the real culprits to all but the blind - the whole international community should swing behind them.

Whats disproportionate about attempting to win a war btw? And incidentally who rejected the initial peace proposals yesterday? Clearly they are they SO concerned about civilian deaths they would rush to support a process. But not if it appeases Hitzbollah? Funny that. As long as Israel loses face – as in all times previous to this when appeasement has been the order of the day.
Basically if Israel appeases its strengthens Hitzbollah and if Israel attempts to crush them it strengthens them.
Go for the latter - wipe them out.

The world should be disgusted that the Lebanese government has cosseted Hitzbollah. The puppet of Iran who deny the Holocaust and Israels right to even exist. The world should be disgusted at that.
It is the Lebanon that has not acted in it own best interests. The Arab world you refer to does not include a vast majority of sunnis who recoil in horror at the increased power of fundamentalists in the region and who are hoping Israel is successful. It is the msm, Stopper Lefties and ROPers that shamefully unite and strengthen the opposition to Israel and engender anti semitism. That disgusts me quite frankly.

No appeasing terror. That route has *only* strengthened it.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

All arabs want to see the removal of Israel, now. Does that mean that you should go ahead and exterminate all Arabs.(sounds NAZI)

Egyptians are not a democracy but if you go there I am sure you will nothing but a population that wants Israel dead as well. Does that mean you should exterminate them?

Point being that: Exterminating your enemy is sick of that means exterminating a peoples.

Exterminating your enemy was the thought of Hitler and his likes. Stalin wanted to exterminate his enemies too. Israel does not learn from History at all does it. It left Lebanon in 2000 because it could not stop Hizbullah in all those years of fighting. That is because it is NOT AN ARMY, but a thing FROM THE PEOPLE.

Like I said, Israel doesn't learn, and so it will continue to try to destroy Hamas and Hezbollah and in the end it will accomplish nothing. Only have wasted soo much and grown hate for itself worldwide.

Israel is nothing but a relic from colonialism and will go from the region one day. Who the hell in their right mind would put a people in the midst of another group of people that hates them and form a state there. Only 20% of israelis are actually born there, I think the 80% that were not should up and leave to the US and brittain because they have good friends and can find high positions there.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Blogger Jo said...

I cant quite endorse a "end justifies means" strategy.

The wholesale destruction of the infrstructure of another country is way beyiond anything militarily required to destroy what is after all a small group of militants, albeit that they are well armed.

What was so strategically important to Hezbullah about a power plant on the coast which had to be destroyed (creating the worst oil slick ever seen in the Med?)

Theres a lot more here than surgical striking going on - which is something that I could accept as legitimate "self defence." I

Israel and other states and individuals are bound by issues of proportionality, as well as morality. What is happening in Lebanon is that a great evil is being inflicted in response to an evil. Its childish to put it in these terms but its true - 2 wrongs arent making a right.

As for being disgusted at the Lebanese government? Does that mean the entre country in some sense "deserves" whats happening to it? Do you think the Catholics of NI who have voted for Sinn Fein "deserve" to be attacked and killed in their hundreds for voting as they did?

And still, the missiles fall in Israel. Its not just wrong, it aint working. It may satisfy something base but ultimately the situation wont be sorted by jets or missiles but by talking. If only there was the same preparedness to talk as there is to press buttons...

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

It wasnt solved by talking Jo. At all. All the international laws, UN resolutions, brokered peace deals, diplomacy, appeasement and concessions have EMBOLDENED the terrorists. Its not a question of wrong its a question of defence. The civilians arent under attack Jo, Hitzbollah are. And it isnt about voters it is about full and outright support. Im not sure ive ever heard of any war where there wasnt destruction. But then again im not sure ive ever heard of a peacedeal which involved random bombing of civilians in northern Israel.

Anonymous - please take your anti semitic shite and post it elsewhere. Suggesting a nation and its people almost wiped out by nazism hasnt 'learned from its mistakes' is beyond sinister.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Blogger Wolfie said...

DSD,

"When Israel occupied southern Lebanon, Israel's civilians were safe from any attack from there."

But were the Lebanese safe from attack? Did the IDF really cease and desist?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1839280,00.html

"Hezbollah had time and leisure to establish ammo dumps, weapons caches and launching platforms there and now we see the end result."

Same could be said of Israel which has built up its military in the interim.

"The correct analogy isn't the 1990's, its 1938."

Oh pleeease! Not another tired old Nazi analogy in replacement for intelligent argument.

Alison,

"No appeasing terror. That route has *only* strengthened it."

Seems to be quite the contrary right now as Hezbollah is quickly becoming the "poster-boy" for radicalism and its making all the moderate regimes quake in their boots. Only a matter of time before every "jihadist" in the region is fly-papered into the region to have-a-go. This is a test-case for 4GW "non-state-actor" conflict and thanks to Israeli bone-headedness the bad-guys are winning; its no-good blaming the media - the snouts are in the trough from both sides of the fence.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Blogger jonz said...

The wholesale destruction of the infrstructure of another country...

This is just a gross exaggeration, an unfortuante byproduct of relying on Hizballah progandists and the MSM.

If only there was the same preparedness to talk as there is to press buttons...

You have grossly misunderstood the nature of Hizballah. How do you "talk" to group who's leader says If they (Jews) all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide. (Daily Star, Oct. 23, 2002)

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous Maggie said...

My script reads, the Hizbollah attacked and killed Israeli soldiers in Israel and took one into captivity. This all led blah blah blah to what we are experiencing now. Talking you say will achieve peace, they have been talking for years and the only thing the Arabs want is the extermination of Israel. Yes it is onesided the Israelis have the better fire power - killing innocent civilians..but that's where the Hizbollah are. If the Lebanese didn't want them there they should have vehemently denied them the right to exist in the 'civilian' communities. I do believe that leaflets were dropped warning these people they were in danger. The Hizbollah know and rejoice in a situation where the Lebanese are being killed in large numbers. Why else would they fire their rockets from these areas. The most frightening aspect of all this is that Iran is arming the Hizbollah and they want to achieve nuclear viability. Do you seriously think if they get it they won't hesitate to use it. Meanwhile that crap organisation called UN will continue to shout to them, in a whisper, if you continue in your quest we will smack your wrists! Wise up everyone this is a war, and a war, not only the Israelis have to win but the whole of the civilised world.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Blogger jonz said...

From Jo's site

Let's say Iran (or another neighbour) has developed WMD. The leader of that state should issue an immediate ultimatum to the Israeli population to leave the territory immediately, or face the consequences. In other words, let's apply the "logic" of the position that the Israelis have placed the population of south Lebanon (while at the same time bombing east and northern Lebanon, including Beirut.

Umm since when did Jews/Israelis call for all Muslims to be called and start launching missiles at civilian targets in Iran? Are you fucking nuts?!

Insane? Possibly? Anti-Semetic? Possibly. But it's an exact analaogy to the position that Israel has put the population of Lebanon. Let's be consistent. If they don't want to be bombed off the face of the earth, they should leave the Middle East and resolve the problem there once and for all.

I'm sorry but your 'logic' is intellectually bankrupt, Jo. Again when have Israeli's threatened civilians in Lebanon/Iran/Syria just for the sake of being Muslim???

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Blogger Jo said...

Alison
It isnt any reassurance to Lebanese civilians for you to say they "arent under attack" Im afraid :)

Listen, if someone came to my house and said "please leave Ms Jo because bad men live near here and the entire area will be attacked by Apaches at midnight", I might sure as Hell leave but equally the person as sure as Hell has NO RIGHT to do that and is morally culpable for what they do, rather than the "bad men" that they are seeking.

As Wolfie has said, the "poster by" (and girl) Hezbullah rejoice in what the Israelis are doing. HUH? How can that count as a success for Israel? As I said on JOBLOG: Dont do what your enemy wants you to do! Anyways, thanks for your civil debate. Hope all is well with u and urs :)

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

Jo (hello btw) - it isnt any reassurance to Israelis when you suggest yet more useless talk talk as a viable defence against those that would see another Holocaust perpetrated either and certainly Israel has made the concessions these past years...to what end?

They already WERE poster boys and girls before the war (check the images above please!) so tell me people please what good appeasement has actually brought about in real terms. Other than to embolden terrorists and make terrorism a legitimate means to an end.

Of course the MSM are culpable if they fail to see the issues here or present such a one sided picture as to propagate myths and half truths that endorse Hitzbollah. Stoppers love the perceived "underdog".

Im not sure i get the bit you posted chez JoBlog either in truth. Thanks JOnz for the other link on infrastructure - was looking for that one...

Maggie - my sentiments exactly. This IS the 30s. Wise up everyone!

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous Maggie said...

Jonz...do not understand the logic of your arguments. Do not understand your arguments at all. Read your comment does it actually make sense to you. If it does ...sad

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

JOnz is quoting from Jo's blog Maggie - thats not his line of thinking..so the logic is Jo's not J0nz's...least were agreed it doesnt make sense to any of us!!

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

Wolfie!?! "Not another tired old Nazi analogy in replacement for intelligent argument"

Holocaust denial, nazi salutes...annhiliation of the Jews, Nasrallah's sentiments 2002, Irans sentiments 2006..whats 'tired' about it? Its alive and kicking.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Blogger Jo said...

Well, the analogy was a skit on the Israeli shouldershrugging about civilian casualties in Lebanon (yes, there ARE some!) in that Israeli spokesmen were saying (on the BBC of all places) that they had been warned to get out and well..that's that. Tough shit.

I dont think they have any moral right to destroy innocent people who are no threst to them in the name of their own self defence. Similarly, the logic is...if Iran really had a nuke and threatended Israel...well, then the Israelis should..erm..all leave cos itll be their own fault if they get fried. ????

Of course (do I REALLY need to say this?) I DONT think that either nuking Israel OR bombing civilians in Lebanon is morally acceptable.

But, from the same warped logic being deployed at present in Lebanon which excuses mass killing in the name of self-defence, destroying the entire state of Israel will in fact save Arab lives... think about it.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous Maggie said...

Yes sorry Jonz it was directed at Jo (not you) who was not, and continues not, to make any sense at all. I am tempted to say what planet is she living on...

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

Its a war Jo. Think about this - you stoppers had 6 years to prevent this. You didnt. What was 'morally acceptable' to you then? An utter disregard for the peace processes and resolutions you all clamoured for and then turned around and ignored?

Whats not morally acceptable to me is the open call for a holocaust. The blurring of facts to skew the propaganda. And the 'shoulder shrugging tactics' of Hitzbollah and Lebanon ALL ALONG that led to this. And who now fight the war they started from behind civilians...

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Blogger Wolfie said...

OK Alison, my Father was a WW2 veteran from India to Iraq so I'm pretty up to speed on what the Nazis were and were not right from the cradle.

First of all you can find a lot of similarity with Nationalistic causes throughout the ages, ultimately they all copy the Romans. You see many similarities with America but I'm not making the fatuous comparison today. I'm a bit confused with who you are accusing exactly because you have spread about a bit wildly.

Holocaust denial : The correct Persian translation is "myth", a myth is a story which may or may not be true which you use to justify your existence. Argument : http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2006/07/everything_you_.html

Nazi salute : Actually its the Roman salute, I think the Assyrians used it first. So the Nazis nicked it off the Arabs in the first place.

Annihilation of Jews : With their nuclear arsenal any Arab leader actually attempting it would be off his trolley and would be ash within 4 mins; Israel is stronger than ever. Its hollow bluster and I think every Kasbah loafer knows it.

The Nazis were highly organised, highly armed meticulous planners with incredible discipline and determination. The Arab states you are referring to are a shambles with utterly feeble weapons in comparison to Israel, no discipline and fighting each other mostly. Can't even wipe their own arse let alone Israel's.

You are insulting Nazis.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Blogger jonz said...

The Nazis were highly organised, highly armed meticulous planners with incredible discipline and determination. The Arab states you are referring to are a shambles with utterly feeble weapons in comparison to Israel, no discipline and fighting each other mostly. Can't even wipe their own arse let alone Israel's.

Correction; the Nazis - at the height of their power - were highly organised, highly armed meticulous planners with incredible discipline and determination.

"a shambles with utterly feeble weapons.... no discipline and fighting each other mostly"

This correctly describes the German National Socialist Workers party in the early 1920's.

j0nz

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

OK Wolfie, quickly as ive got to do some actual work here today -

Hitzbollah & Hamas arent emulating the Romans. Where it originates is academic in this set of circumstances...

Also the Nazis werent always the highly organised planners - they started off with a lot of bluff bluster and perceived organisation to rally the masses. Very successfully.

Ill need more time to read your link on the holocaust.

Pls see JOnz links above about the aggressive statements made.

The statements perpetuate irrational Jew hatred and doesnt fill me with confidence when considering Iran is up for nuclear weapons or that Israel is surrounded by hostile states.

Im quite happy to be insulting Nazis.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Blogger Jo said...

Maggie

Well, if the planet you live on is one where people have the right to take the lives of innocents who pose no threat to them and is a place where those who argue that the destruction of innocent life is wrong are laughed at and called crazy - I suspect its a planet which will be somewhat devoid of people in the near future.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous Maggie said...

The Lebanese government have had plenty of time to get their house in order. If they insist on harbouring terrorists and letting them build up an arsenal (supplied by Iran) and hide amongst the civilian population, then it is they who should answer to the population for their destruction.
No-one is laughing except when you make simplistic statements like...dropping leaflets before a wmd is fired...that equates etc.etc. yeah right. Going out now so you can have the last word.

 
At Tuesday, 08 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

Unlikely Jo wars have been fought since time began. Its all very well trying to take a prinicpled stand but noone did before this war broke out and therein lies part of the problem. Lecturing about the rights and the wrongs of the war after it has broken out is all a bit academic and somewhat questionable (see earlier comments). Especially when you are defending those whose inclination is was to start this one.

 
At Wednesday, 09 August, 2006, Blogger Jo said...

Alison

My "inclination" is not to defend H'bullah in any shape or form.

I thought it was clear from what I said and as a matter of logic that to criticise what Israel is doing is not to take the side of the other bunch of lunatics, but to point out the self defeating nature of what it is that they are doing. If Israel, instead of kneejerking and doing what has been done had focussed militarily on the opposition, there would be no yelping from me or many others.

What is happening in Lebanon is the equivalent of the Army moving into Catholic parts of NI and killing all around them becuase thats where the IRA were to be found. I know some friends of yours in all sincerity think that that was what should have happened, but dont expect me to endorse that madness, because thats what it is.

 
At Wednesday, 09 August, 2006, Blogger Dangerouslysubversivedad said...

Jo,

So let's be clear on this: you support a ground invasion of Southern Lebanon to root out Hezbollah as long as the airstrikes stop?

 
At Wednesday, 09 August, 2006, Blogger Jo said...

I think it preferable that the Lebanese Army implement the authority of their democratic government over their own sovereign territory.

The threat of airstrikes or ground invasion, with the diplpmatic backing of the US, should have been sufficient to make this happen before taking the action that has happened. Either it would have worked or the H'bullah would have killed Lebanese troops, which would have meant international pressure on THEM, rather than Israel.

 
At Wednesday, 09 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

The Lebanese army won't disarm Hezbollah. Hitzbo could run ransack over the entire country if they wanted to or if they were threatened internationally at this point in time. The army would likely disintegrate.

At best disarming Hezbollah by force internally would lead to a civil war with Iran ready to pounce. And just as many innocent casualties.

The Lebanese army has no power. The government has little or no power to push the army. All been left too late. It barely polices Lebanons streets and is no match for Hitzballah who effectively control Lebanon.

I feel that threats of outside airstrikes against Hitzbo is equivalent to the US threatening Iran at this point.

Israel seek to disarm the Party of God and protect their citizens as per the original conditions of the UN resolution. I fail to see why the international community should really have an issue with that aspect or pick the wrong side. There should be no yelping on this point.

I know you strongly favour jaw jaw but it seems me that all the jaw jaw in the world has led us to this crisis point with war then initiated by Hitzbo.

Had the IRA been chucking missiles into the British mainland for a nos of years I would fully expect the British government to do something about it. I dont see that as madness - I see it as self defence.

 
At Wednesday, 09 August, 2006, Blogger Jo said...

Well, the IRA didnt chuck missiles in London, they restricted their RPGs to Belfast, which of course was and is part of the UK.

HMG DID of course do something about the bombs in London - they started talking to the political wing of the IRA (they had been for years anyway) and eventually achieved the disarming and virtual disbandment of the IRA. I know you dont get this sort of info. from other sites.

Now the only ones killing people here are..erm..those who want to be part of the UK...

 
At Wednesday, 09 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

Oh right. Aimed squarely at civilians? What was Omagh then. a glitch? As far as i can tell the IRAs handy work has spread far and wide with appeasement and influenced many. And im also sure without 9/11 it would have continued. Unabaited by appeasement.

 
At Wednesday, 09 August, 2006, Blogger Jo said...

Alison

The IRA have stopped. Loyalists continue. Omagh happened because some republicans also happen to like violence. No-one supports them, no-one at all. Their organisation is riddled with paid informers and under the thumb of MI5 and the Irish police. When people put their violent past behind them, they can have a future.

Its perhaps underdstandable that some violent aspects of Northern Ireland are shielded from you because of the company you keep but I think you'll find that the founding fathers of Unionism smuggled tens of thousands of guns from Germany in order to fight the Government - on the eve of WW1. Some people might regard that as a bit treasonous.

 
At Wednesday, 09 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

OK before we go off on the IRA (and i would think you have the historical detail edge there!)..what about DSDs question - assuming you'd go along with the fact that your position might end in civil war...

 
At Thursday, 10 August, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

NAZI NAZI NAZI
thats all jewish people ever seem to call anyone that doesn't like them.

You are quickly becoming as powerfull and organized and angry as Hitler. Soon you will be the ones that want to exterminate everyone in Gaza and the Westbank and will make Hitler look like a nice guy.

No, I am not an anti-semite, I am just telling it like it is. You can be as jewish as ever and I respect you, but Israel is the most retarded state formed during colonialism.

 
At Thursday, 10 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

"Israel is the most *retarded* state formed during colonialism"

Retarded...yep...off the back of the Holocaust - but you're no anti-semite.

LOL. Anyway - hope you feel better for getting that off your chest.

 
At Thursday, 10 August, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

no
don't feel better!
Am just telling it like it is. It will be gone one day and then the entire world can feel better. Jewish people will be happy elsewhere too. In Europe or in the states I mean.

 
At Thursday, 10 August, 2006, Blogger Jo said...

I dont think using the word "retarded" in relation to any state helps any form of understanding.

I thought I had answered the question (in my lil roundabout way) - I don't support territorial transgression. The threat of such transgression, if made forcefully enough, should have been enough to coerce the Lebanese army into a higher presence in southern Lebanon. That area is not Israeli's plaything, to be invaded or bombed at a whim, it is part of a sovereign state. Most civilised states have of course an option to use armed force but most choose it as a last resort. Israel doesnt regard the option as being one of the LAST to be tried, if I can put it that way. Its a classic example of being ABLE to do something, but that doesnt carry the RIGHT to do that thing. Note that at no point have I denied a right to self-defence.

 
At Friday, 11 August, 2006, Blogger Dangerouslysubversivedad said...

Jo,

The fact that you seriously and sincerely 'think the IRA have stopped but Loyalists continue' shows your Republican bias is as clear as ever. Laughable.

 
At Friday, 11 August, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

'Jewish people will be happy elsewhere'

And i dont feel better for you saying this. You're an idiot.

 
At Friday, 11 August, 2006, Blogger Jo said...

DSD

I wasnt aware that you were an expert on current Irish politics.

Do enlighten me as to what evidence you have in your possession that the IRA, having decommissioned to the satisfaction of all but the unsatisfiable, are in fact still militarily active?

Perhaps you could bear out your argument with the stats of murders by republican and loyalists over recent years as backing for your argument that my views, the views of HMG, the Army, MI5, PSNI, the Irish government and the US administration are in fact mistaken - and yours correct.

Take your time o omniscient one. And as for my "Republican bias"? Thats the REALLY laughable thing.

 

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