Clowns & Jokers

Stuck in the middle.... Left, right, centre. It's a mess out there.

Wednesday, June 14, 2006

That Anti Police Rally London


Pics from Nordish, more here

21 Comments:

At Wednesday, 14 June, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

hattip DumbJon when bloggers working properly ill add that in.

 
At Thursday, 15 June, 2006, Blogger Chas said...

I can see that they're soooo oppressed! The police do seem less on edge that at the FOS March.

 
At Thursday, 15 June, 2006, Blogger Hellpig said...

Alison will you link my new multi-national anti-pedophile blog

We need a UK team member too,interested?

Absolute Zero

 
At Thursday, 15 June, 2006, Blogger Wolfie said...

Well it all looks quite harmless, a little finger waggling, some speeches and the usual useful idiots.

Mind you, the raid was a farce. I can't find any level on which I can defend it and its done no service to the ongoing ability of the police to gather future intelligence.

And as for Zionism - that's a load of wank too. So I can't disagree with that t-shirt myself.

 
At Thursday, 15 June, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

I disagree Wolfie. They acted on the information presented to them. What would you rather that they didnt and took a chance?

The t shirt is disgusting.

 
At Thursday, 15 June, 2006, Blogger jonz said...

What the fuck does Zionism have to do with the raid? Stupid fucking fuckers!

And yeah Nordish is right, the police don't seem interested unless it's white Britains protesting. Then they get those long range cameras out...

 
At Thursday, 15 June, 2006, Blogger Wolfie said...

Alison, I'd like to know exactly where they got that information. That may join the dots somewhat but we are unlikely to find out. Just a theory but its not uncommon for agent provocateurs to pass bogus information onto security services in order to compromise other sensitive operations. Don't forget that last year the 7/7 bombing came soon after a time-wasting police operation after which the police are required to go softly-softly.

What is disgusting about a t-shirt that says "The world must stop [insert pet cause]"?

Seems quite low key to me and the man is entitled to his opinion (although I do find t-shirt politics rather childish) as we are, if we want our freedom of speech respected we should respect his should we not? Zionism is a political ideology, nothing more, nothing less.

Jonz, they are outside New Scotland Yard - every inch is filmed and sound staged!

 
At Thursday, 15 June, 2006, Blogger jonz said...

Good point Wolfie. I hope they study each and every face - many of these guys *are* extremists

 
At Thursday, 15 June, 2006, Anonymous Enid said...

The more I think about it the more I think the police were 'set up'. It was just what the muslims wanted...to see these poor brothers - harmless models of UK society dragged into the dirt. They could then rant and rave about police brutality and how they were just simple folk who thought they were about to go to paradise on the night of the raid. The police, however, are in a no win situation, damned if they do and damned if they don't. It's a war for god's sake and the police are trying, in the face of stiff opposition to protect us. Let's go back to the day of the terrorists bombs on the tube and buses shall we, and ask ourselves are we the least bit concerned two muslims were badly inconvenienced by our nasty brutish police? I would also like to know if any of the relatives of the victims of the 'home grown' bombers are to receive half a million.

 
At Saturday, 17 June, 2006, Anonymous Steve said...

Enid, I am coming to similar conclusions.

The police would not have sent 250 officers in unless they had serious fears about a terrorist attack. I reckon some Islamists set the whole thing up and the cops fell for it. I hope that they are on the case of whoever provided that dodgy intelligence. That is probably the line most likely to lead to the terrorists.

 
At Saturday, 17 June, 2006, Blogger Dangerouslysubversivedad said...

Yes Wolfie, of course the desire for a Jewish homeland is on a par with the Holocaust. You just keep right on with that moral equivalency there.

Twat.

 
At Sunday, 18 June, 2006, Blogger Rastaman said...

ROFLMAO. Wolfie, you often have well thought out and pertinent comments but your anti-semitism does tend to come out at rather inappropriate times.

We all know you don't like Jews, I guess some of them have harmed you in the past or perhaps you might not feel that way, yes? But I have to agree that a tee shirt putting Nazism on the same level as Zionism is pretty disgusting. As the man says, Zionism is the belief that Jews are entitled to a homeland the same as other peoples. Yes, it is also a political philosophy. That philosophy does not include waging war with the so-called Palestinians or anyone else, it simply manifests the desire to have a homeland.
Since the Arabs living in the area of Palestine blame Zionism for virtually everything, resulting in idiots wearing stupid tee shirts, let's talk about that.

The Jews have ALWAYS lived in Palestine, for thousands of years. It was their original homeland. They were dispersed by the Egyptians (the Diaspora) but some have always been there and after WW II when the Arabs were defeated along with the Germans and Italians, all those displaced Jews that were freed from the Death Camps needed a home. A movement started to end the Diaspora.... Zionism.
There were a lot of Arabs living in the area who were making a very meager living, the way Arabs generally did and most still do, raising goats and doing a little farming in the poor, rocky soil. When the Jews offered to buy their land at generous prices, they were overjoyed and leaped at it. In this manner the Jews BOUGHT their new state. At the same time, there were a great many displaced Arabs left over from the fighting and who needed a home. NONE of the Arab nations would take them in. The only place available was Palestine as it was the only place not ruled by a force that could keep them out. So there they went and after 61 years these people are still calling themselves "refugees" that live in "camps". Buy that sympathy ploy?
Now the original Arabs who sold the land, along with the descendants of the WW II refugees, are claiming ownership of the land that was sold to the Jews. Part of that land was taken as spoils of war from neighboring states who attacked the Jews without provocation, which is legal and fair and has nothing to do with anyone living in Palestine.

Putting Jews and Zionism on the same level as Muslims and Islam just doesn't fly, I don't care how much anyone is prejudiced against Jews. Blind, unreasoning hatred of something militarily benign doesn't stack up well against the reality of a true threat and it's wise to keep the two well separated in ones mind.

The Jews are on OUR side.

 
At Monday, 19 June, 2006, Blogger Wolfie said...

DSD/Rastaman,

I didn't say that I agreed with the T-shirt, I said that the man was entitled to his opinion. Its called freedom of speech and I thought that you guys were in favour of it when you were so busy pissing off the Muslims with those silly cartoons? The shirt does not make a call to violence against Zionists and is therefore within the remit of freedom in a civilised country as far as I'm concerned. I am happy to permit the public expression of non-violent opinion, seems you guys are not. Are you so brainwashed by the MSM that you can be so quick to accuse me of Anti-Semitism when you know so little about me? Based on what? That I don't personally think that Zionism is a great idea?
Were Zionism "only" about a homeland for the Jews I would be more enthusiastic about it but it is more complex than that, things in life often are.

How the hell does not being enamoured by a political movement equate to the hatred of a people? Many Jews are unenthusiastic about Zionism, some of those are vehemently opposed to it. According to Rabbinical scripture the creation of Israel is against the will of God which makes every Orthodox Jew an anti-Semite by your reckoning but I'm sure you know that.

Jew does not equals Zionist.

www.jewsagainstzionism.com

www.nkusa.org

And Rastaman, the Jews may or may not be on "our side" (I like to hope so) but there was a time when the Zionists were not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_Bombing, must have been the overwhelming gratitude for defeating Nazism I guess. The perpetrators went on to become presidents of Israel.

Let me make myself clear, as you are so thick-headed, I personally have no problem with the existence of Israel and I do not support the Palestinian cause in any shape or form but I expect a foreign state to be friendly before I call them a friend.

 
At Monday, 19 June, 2006, Blogger Rastaman said...

"What is disgusting about a t-shirt that says "The world must stop [insert pet cause]"? Seems quite low key to me"

Wolfie, it was that statement that fired off us "thick-headed" people. Certainly all Jews are not Zionists in their political thinking. However, we all know that the Arabs don't make that separation, so when they attack Zionism they are attacking the Jews. That blurt on the shirt does put Zionism and Nazism on the same level, which is pretty ugly.

Yes, my explanation of Zionism was simplistic.

You have made a few statements in the past that were pretty anti-Jew and no, I didn't save link references to them. Maybe you meant something else but like this time, your remarks come off as being anti-Semitic even if not intended. You're an intelligent guy and I know you can see what I'm saying.

"the creation of Israel is against the will of God which makes every Orthodox Jew an anti-Semite by your reckoning but I'm sure you know that." Nope, I didn't know that but excuse me, you're wrong. It makes Orthodox Jews Anti-Zionist. Anti-Semite means hatred of Jews. I hardly think they hate themselves.

The Jews might be more friendly to the English if England had not done so much in the past to repress them and was not such a bastion of anti-Semitism yet today. That does count.

I don't know what the MSM is. I do acronyms poorly anyway, no memory for them.

No one was attacking your freedom of speech. We were attacking, or counter-attacking actually, what at least *seemed* to be your attack on Jews. Your opinion versus other opinions. That's simply freedom of speech from both sides.

 
At Monday, 19 June, 2006, Blogger Dangerouslysubversivedad said...

Wolfie,

If the shirt had just said Stop Zionism then that is one thing. But it keeps right on with that good old modern blood libel - Israel is an 'apartheid state', Zionism is Nazism etc etc. That's called moral equivalence and when you defend a viewpoint like that I WILL continue to call you a twat and probably many other things as well.

 
At Monday, 19 June, 2006, Blogger Snafu said...

Would it be more appropriate if the T-shirt said "The World must stop Islam"!?!

 
At Monday, 19 June, 2006, Blogger Rastaman said...

Not on a Muslim, not hardly. But as a reality, it would be vastly more appropriate. Wonder if I can interest some t-shirt printer in putting out a bunch? Hmmmmm.....

 
At Tuesday, 20 June, 2006, Blogger freedomprotestor said...

Well if you replace he word Zionism with Islam on a lot of these nutjob conferences and flyers, it all makes sense.

Check out "The World Without Islam"

 
At Tuesday, 20 June, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

"I am happy to permit the public expression of non-violent opinion, seems you guys are not"

I think everyone here is freely expressing an opinion.

The cartoons werent published in the UK Wolfie - so the point of the demo was to highlight the start of self censorship borne of fear of offending/'pissing off'. Im entitled to say i find the t shirt abhorrent as I see it as anti semitic and hugely offensive to mention Nazism. I cant imagine id start burning stuff, start riots though or force a free press into submission. Or stage a counter demo calling for people to be beheaded because im 'pissed off'. A concern for 'pissing people off' is a dangerous argument to throw in to a discussion defending your right to your opinion.

Ive just seen a t-shirt in an Oxford Street shop that says 'Freedom - Enjoy it while it lasts'. Not far off the mark.

Historically many people were repressed in England Rasta when religion was used as a way to control society. We werent so repressive we didnt go on to have a Jewish PM in the 19th century though. One whose influence was pretty far reaching and important.

 
At Thursday, 22 June, 2006, Blogger Tom Tyler said...

I particularly liked the three photos where the leader is showing a group how to put their banners together correctly. This could be the subject of a good "caption competition", I think!-
"Right, you stand in front of the banners and look at them to make sure the spelling is good"....."Then you get your glue-stick and you apply it to one side of the card. Then kneel down and press the card down onto the handle, like this"....."Finally you get right down and give it a close-up inspection, to make sure that the adhesion is working". Now that is what I call dedication!

 
At Monday, 26 June, 2006, Anonymous alison said...

They ARE well organised! At the free speech rally someone turned up with binoculars just to make DAMN sure they were offended!

 

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