Well it all looks quite harmless, a little finger waggling, some speeches and the usual useful idiots.
Mind you, the raid was a farce. I can't find any level on which I can defend it and its done no service to the ongoing ability of the police to gather future intelligence.
And as for Zionism - that's a load of wank too. So I can't disagree with that t-shirt myself.
Alison, I'd like to know exactly where they got that information. That may join the dots somewhat but we are unlikely to find out. Just a theory but its not uncommon for agent provocateurs to pass bogus information onto security services in order to compromise other sensitive operations. Don't forget that last year the 7/7 bombing came soon after a time-wasting police operation after which the police are required to go softly-softly.
What is disgusting about a t-shirt that says "The world must stop [insert pet cause]"?
Seems quite low key to me and the man is entitled to his opinion (although I do find t-shirt politics rather childish) as we are, if we want our freedom of speech respected we should respect his should we not? Zionism is a political ideology, nothing more, nothing less.
Jonz, they are outside New Scotland Yard - every inch is filmed and sound staged!
The more I think about it the more I think the police were 'set up'. It was just what the muslims wanted...to see these poor brothers - harmless models of UK society dragged into the dirt. They could then rant and rave about police brutality and how they were just simple folk who thought they were about to go to paradise on the night of the raid. The police, however, are in a no win situation, damned if they do and damned if they don't. It's a war for god's sake and the police are trying, in the face of stiff opposition to protect us. Let's go back to the day of the terrorists bombs on the tube and buses shall we, and ask ourselves are we the least bit concerned two muslims were badly inconvenienced by our nasty brutish police? I would also like to know if any of the relatives of the victims of the 'home grown' bombers are to receive half a million.
The police would not have sent 250 officers in unless they had serious fears about a terrorist attack. I reckon some Islamists set the whole thing up and the cops fell for it. I hope that they are on the case of whoever provided that dodgy intelligence. That is probably the line most likely to lead to the terrorists.
I didn't say that I agreed with the T-shirt, I said that the man was entitled to his opinion. Its called freedom of speech and I thought that you guys were in favour of it when you were so busy pissing off the Muslims with those silly cartoons? The shirt does not make a call to violence against Zionists and is therefore within the remit of freedom in a civilised country as far as I'm concerned. I am happy to permit the public expression of non-violent opinion, seems you guys are not. Are you so brainwashed by the MSM that you can be so quick to accuse me of Anti-Semitism when you know so little about me? Based on what? That I don't personally think that Zionism is a great idea? Were Zionism "only" about a homeland for the Jews I would be more enthusiastic about it but it is more complex than that, things in life often are.
How the hell does not being enamoured by a political movement equate to the hatred of a people? Many Jews are unenthusiastic about Zionism, some of those are vehemently opposed to it. According to Rabbinical scripture the creation of Israel is against the will of God which makes every Orthodox Jew an anti-Semite by your reckoning but I'm sure you know that.
Jew does not equals Zionist.
www.jewsagainstzionism.com
www.nkusa.org
And Rastaman, the Jews may or may not be on "our side" (I like to hope so) but there was a time when the Zionists were not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_Bombing, must have been the overwhelming gratitude for defeating Nazism I guess. The perpetrators went on to become presidents of Israel.
Let me make myself clear, as you are so thick-headed, I personally have no problem with the existence of Israel and I do not support the Palestinian cause in any shape or form but I expect a foreign state to be friendly before I call them a friend.
If the shirt had just said Stop Zionism then that is one thing. But it keeps right on with that good old modern blood libel - Israel is an 'apartheid state', Zionism is Nazism etc etc. That's called moral equivalence and when you defend a viewpoint like that I WILL continue to call you a twat and probably many other things as well.
"I am happy to permit the public expression of non-violent opinion, seems you guys are not"
I think everyone here is freely expressing an opinion.
The cartoons werent published in the UK Wolfie - so the point of the demo was to highlight the start of self censorship borne of fear of offending/'pissing off'. Im entitled to say i find the t shirt abhorrent as I see it as anti semitic and hugely offensive to mention Nazism. I cant imagine id start burning stuff, start riots though or force a free press into submission. Or stage a counter demo calling for people to be beheaded because im 'pissed off'. A concern for 'pissing people off' is a dangerous argument to throw in to a discussion defending your right to your opinion.
Ive just seen a t-shirt in an Oxford Street shop that says 'Freedom - Enjoy it while it lasts'. Not far off the mark.
Historically many people were repressed in England Rasta when religion was used as a way to control society. We werent so repressive we didnt go on to have a Jewish PM in the 19th century though. One whose influence was pretty far reaching and important.
I particularly liked the three photos where the leader is showing a group how to put their banners together correctly. This could be the subject of a good "caption competition", I think!- "Right, you stand in front of the banners and look at them to make sure the spelling is good"....."Then you get your glue-stick and you apply it to one side of the card. Then kneel down and press the card down onto the handle, like this"....."Finally you get right down and give it a close-up inspection, to make sure that the adhesion is working". Now that is what I call dedication!
16 Comments:
hattip DumbJon when bloggers working properly ill add that in.
Alison will you link my new multi-national anti-pedophile blog
We need a UK team member too,interested?
Absolute Zero
Well it all looks quite harmless, a little finger waggling, some speeches and the usual useful idiots.
Mind you, the raid was a farce. I can't find any level on which I can defend it and its done no service to the ongoing ability of the police to gather future intelligence.
And as for Zionism - that's a load of wank too. So I can't disagree with that t-shirt myself.
I disagree Wolfie. They acted on the information presented to them. What would you rather that they didnt and took a chance?
The t shirt is disgusting.
What the fuck does Zionism have to do with the raid? Stupid fucking fuckers!
And yeah Nordish is right, the police don't seem interested unless it's white Britains protesting. Then they get those long range cameras out...
Alison, I'd like to know exactly where they got that information. That may join the dots somewhat but we are unlikely to find out. Just a theory but its not uncommon for agent provocateurs to pass bogus information onto security services in order to compromise other sensitive operations. Don't forget that last year the 7/7 bombing came soon after a time-wasting police operation after which the police are required to go softly-softly.
What is disgusting about a t-shirt that says "The world must stop [insert pet cause]"?
Seems quite low key to me and the man is entitled to his opinion (although I do find t-shirt politics rather childish) as we are, if we want our freedom of speech respected we should respect his should we not? Zionism is a political ideology, nothing more, nothing less.
Jonz, they are outside New Scotland Yard - every inch is filmed and sound staged!
Good point Wolfie. I hope they study each and every face - many of these guys *are* extremists
The more I think about it the more I think the police were 'set up'. It was just what the muslims wanted...to see these poor brothers - harmless models of UK society dragged into the dirt. They could then rant and rave about police brutality and how they were just simple folk who thought they were about to go to paradise on the night of the raid. The police, however, are in a no win situation, damned if they do and damned if they don't. It's a war for god's sake and the police are trying, in the face of stiff opposition to protect us. Let's go back to the day of the terrorists bombs on the tube and buses shall we, and ask ourselves are we the least bit concerned two muslims were badly inconvenienced by our nasty brutish police? I would also like to know if any of the relatives of the victims of the 'home grown' bombers are to receive half a million.
Enid, I am coming to similar conclusions.
The police would not have sent 250 officers in unless they had serious fears about a terrorist attack. I reckon some Islamists set the whole thing up and the cops fell for it. I hope that they are on the case of whoever provided that dodgy intelligence. That is probably the line most likely to lead to the terrorists.
Yes Wolfie, of course the desire for a Jewish homeland is on a par with the Holocaust. You just keep right on with that moral equivalency there.
Twat.
DSD/Rastaman,
I didn't say that I agreed with the T-shirt, I said that the man was entitled to his opinion. Its called freedom of speech and I thought that you guys were in favour of it when you were so busy pissing off the Muslims with those silly cartoons? The shirt does not make a call to violence against Zionists and is therefore within the remit of freedom in a civilised country as far as I'm concerned. I am happy to permit the public expression of non-violent opinion, seems you guys are not. Are you so brainwashed by the MSM that you can be so quick to accuse me of Anti-Semitism when you know so little about me? Based on what? That I don't personally think that Zionism is a great idea?
Were Zionism "only" about a homeland for the Jews I would be more enthusiastic about it but it is more complex than that, things in life often are.
How the hell does not being enamoured by a political movement equate to the hatred of a people? Many Jews are unenthusiastic about Zionism, some of those are vehemently opposed to it. According to Rabbinical scripture the creation of Israel is against the will of God which makes every Orthodox Jew an anti-Semite by your reckoning but I'm sure you know that.
Jew does not equals Zionist.
www.jewsagainstzionism.com
www.nkusa.org
And Rastaman, the Jews may or may not be on "our side" (I like to hope so) but there was a time when the Zionists were not: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_Bombing, must have been the overwhelming gratitude for defeating Nazism I guess. The perpetrators went on to become presidents of Israel.
Let me make myself clear, as you are so thick-headed, I personally have no problem with the existence of Israel and I do not support the Palestinian cause in any shape or form but I expect a foreign state to be friendly before I call them a friend.
Wolfie,
If the shirt had just said Stop Zionism then that is one thing. But it keeps right on with that good old modern blood libel - Israel is an 'apartheid state', Zionism is Nazism etc etc. That's called moral equivalence and when you defend a viewpoint like that I WILL continue to call you a twat and probably many other things as well.
Would it be more appropriate if the T-shirt said "The World must stop Islam"!?!
"I am happy to permit the public expression of non-violent opinion, seems you guys are not"
I think everyone here is freely expressing an opinion.
The cartoons werent published in the UK Wolfie - so the point of the demo was to highlight the start of self censorship borne of fear of offending/'pissing off'. Im entitled to say i find the t shirt abhorrent as I see it as anti semitic and hugely offensive to mention Nazism. I cant imagine id start burning stuff, start riots though or force a free press into submission. Or stage a counter demo calling for people to be beheaded because im 'pissed off'. A concern for 'pissing people off' is a dangerous argument to throw in to a discussion defending your right to your opinion.
Ive just seen a t-shirt in an Oxford Street shop that says 'Freedom - Enjoy it while it lasts'. Not far off the mark.
Historically many people were repressed in England Rasta when religion was used as a way to control society. We werent so repressive we didnt go on to have a Jewish PM in the 19th century though. One whose influence was pretty far reaching and important.
I particularly liked the three photos where the leader is showing a group how to put their banners together correctly. This could be the subject of a good "caption competition", I think!-
"Right, you stand in front of the banners and look at them to make sure the spelling is good"....."Then you get your glue-stick and you apply it to one side of the card. Then kneel down and press the card down onto the handle, like this"....."Finally you get right down and give it a close-up inspection, to make sure that the adhesion is working". Now that is what I call dedication!
They ARE well organised! At the free speech rally someone turned up with binoculars just to make DAMN sure they were offended!
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